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Reverse Your Helplessness in Narcissistic Abuse (with Jacqui Yates, Circles)

Uploaded 1/14/2025, approx. 6 minute read

Recording in progress, that's us.

Welcome, Sam.

Thank you, Jane.

I welcome everyone.

I'm Jackie Yates, your host and guide for today's conversation. I am a therapist with years of experience, facilitating group therapy and including support groups for circles. Circles is a leading platform providing safe and supportive group therapy spaces for those navigating narcissistic abuse. I am thrilled and honored to have Professor Sam Vaknin with me again today. Sam is a renowned expert in the field of narcissism and narcissistic abuse.

So Sam, I am thrilled to have you to share your deep insights into our discussion today around narcissistic patterns and tactics in relationships.

Thank you for your courage and patience in having me again. I'm happy to be here with you. That's an honor.


So I thought Sam, just before we go, you know, into the patterns and tactics, I thought just looking at differentiating or distinguishing between narcissism and narcissistic personality disorder, briefly.

I thought that, you know, for me, narcissism is more of a personality trait that most people live with to some degree. And like any trait, it exists on a spectrum. So, you know, on one end, you can have a healthy narcissism where a person has a positive sense of themselves. And then on the other end, there's a pathological or maladaptive narcissism where you would have a negative impact on how you view yourself and relationships, and all the world.

And then I think NPD or narcissistic personality disorder would be a more extreme and inflexible pattern of behavior that would significantly impair interpersonal relationships and functioning.

And that, I don't know if you would like to give your opinion and how you view it.

Well, I'm a professor of clinical psychology, and so we frown on opinions. We try to stick to studies and what we can learn by observing people and working with them and so and so forth.

Today we tend to, in contemporary literature, we tend to distinguish between narcissistic style, narcissistic disorder, and narcissistic trait domains.

So to start with, you are right that there have been many prominent scholars, such as Heinz Kohut and others. Jung is one of them who suggested that there is such a thing as healthy narcissism, and that healthy narcissism underlies what we call self-esteem and self-confidence and an integrated self-concept.

In other words, a view of oneself as continuous in time and as cohesive. This view of oneself, this me or I, this relies crucially on healthy narcissism.

However, we deal mostly with pathological narcissism, and we tend to generalize and say that narcissism in adulthood is mostly pathological.

And then we distinguish between, as I said, three manifestations of pathological narcissism.

One is the narcissistic style, first described by Lammers Perry. And the narcissistic style is simply what we call obnoxious or a-holes. Very, very unpleasant peopleto be around, to interact with, to share a life with, to collaborate with, and so on. People who are impossible, dysempathic, exploitative, full of themselves, etc.

However, this is not necessarily a pathology. It's more of a temperament or a character or a... It's a style. That's why we call it a style.

Then we have narcissistic trait domains. Trait domains, for example, anankastia. Anankastia is obsessive-compulsive features. We have, for example, desociality, also known in America as antisociality. So psychopathic features of narcissism. Then we have antagonism.

Narcissists are conflict-prone because they're very fragile internally. They tend to be defensive about who they are and how they are perceived by others. So that creates a lot of antagonism and conflict.

So these are traits. And we divide all these traits into domains. And there you are right, the traits lie on a spectrum. There is a continuum. The trait could be emphasized, the trait could be latent, the trait could be mild, the trait could be extreme.

But this applies only to traits.

And then we have narcissistic personality disorder.

And that's very misleading because we tend to associate narcissistic personality disorder with trait domains or with the personality style, and it is not or should not be associated with these things.

Narcissistic personality disorder was first described by Heinz Kohut, the aforementioned Kohut in the 70s, and it is a severe mental illness that involves psychological dynamics and types of constructs, personality constructs, which are extremely malformed and maladaptive and rigid and problematic and so on.

So in contemporary thinking, we do not regard narcissistic personality disorder as lying on the same spectrum as narcissistic style or narcissistic traits. We don't at all. We believe that narcissistic personality disorder is its own clinical entity. And it doesn't lie on a spectrum. Either you have narcissistic personality disorder or you don't. It's like pregnancy.

So this is the background, generally speaking, but it creates a lot of confusion.

Now, segwing into our topic, it creates a lot of confusion because we will come across other people with personality styles, other people with narcissistic personalities and say, that's a narcissistic, or they come across people with narcissistic traits, such as antagonism or antisociality or dissociality. They're a narcissists, and these people are not narcissists. They're obnoxious. They're jerks. They're a-holes. I mean, use any epithet. But they're not narcissists. They are not and cannot be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder.

In the most extreme cases, we call them subclinical narcissists. So in dark triad personalities and dark tetral personalities, there is subclinical narcissism, narcissistic traits and narcissistic style that cannot be diagnosed as narcissistic personality disorder.

That was a very long answer to a very short question, which is a problem with me.

Not, but very, very, very important, because a lot of the time in the groups, you know, people.

If you enjoyed this article, you might like the following:

Narcissist: Is He or Isn't He?

Narcissism is a spectrum of behaviors, from healthy to pathological, and the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual specifies nine diagnostic criteria for narcissistic personality disorder (NPD). A malignant narcissist is someone who has NPD and wreaks havoc on themselves and their surroundings. They feel grandiose and self-important, exaggerate accomplishments, and demand recognition as superior without commensurate achievements. They require excessive admiration, adulation, attention, and affirmation, and are interpersonally exploitative, devoid of empathy, and constantly envious of others.


Covert Narcissist = Borderline+Psychopath+Passive-Aggressive

Narcissism exists on a spectrum, with individuals displaying varying degrees of narcissistic traits, personality styles, and disorders. The distinction between narcissistic personality disorder and narcissistic personality style is crucial, as the former is dysfunctional and self-destructive, while the latter can be a positive adaptation that allows for social functioning. Narcissists often lack emotional empathy and perceive others as extensions of themselves, leading to exploitative behaviors and a reliance on narcissistic supply for self-regulation. Covert narcissists, in particular, may exhibit a fragile self-image and can be more dangerous due to their hidden nature, often engaging in passive-aggressive behaviors and manipulation.


Think You Know Narcissists, Borderlines? Think Again! (With Ruan de Witt)

Narcissism can be understood as a complex of traits and behaviors, with a distinction between narcissistic style and narcissistic personality disorder (NPD). The former is increasingly common as a coping mechanism in a self-centered society, while the latter involves severe disruptions in personality and functioning, often stemming from childhood trauma. The prevalence of NPD is now seen as roughly equal between men and women, with a concerning rise in narcissistic traits among women, often as a reaction to trauma. Relationships with narcissists can be toxic, characterized by phases such as love bombing, grooming, and shared fantasy, ultimately leading to complex trauma for the partner if they remain in the relationship without adjusting their expectations or reframing the situation.


Narcissists Hard to Spot

Narcissistic personality disorder is difficult to isolate with certainty, and it is important to distinguish between inherent traits and reactive patterns. Narcissism is considered pathological only when it becomes a rigid personality structure with primitive defense mechanisms and leads to dysfunctions in one or more areas of life. Pathological narcissism is the art of deception, and the narcissist projects a false self to manage social interactions. Victims of narcissists often find themselves involved before discovering the narcissist's true nature, and the narcissist emits subtle signals even on a first or casual encounter.


Criminalize Narcissistic Abuse? (with Dr. Yana Greenberg, Be Honest Podcast)

Narcissism exists on a spectrum, with subclinical narcissistic styles being common and not reaching the severity of narcissistic personality disorder, which is a serious mental illness. The distinction between narcissism as a clinical construct and as a societal organizing principle is crucial, as it allows for a better understanding of behaviors in various contexts, including politics and relationships. Narcissistic behaviors should not be pathologized as mental illness but rather recognized as social dysfunctions that can harm individuals and society, necessitating a shift in how we address and respond to them. Protecting oneself from narcissistic individuals involves recognizing gut instincts, observing their treatment of others, and maintaining personal boundaries, as narcissists often manipulate and test limits to assert control.


Narcissistic Personality Disorder Prevalence and Comorbidity

Pathological narcissism is a lifelong pattern of traits and behaviors that signify infatuation and obsession with oneself to the exclusion of all others. Healthy narcissism is adaptive, flexible, empathic, and causes elation and joy. Narcissistic Personality Disorder is diagnosed in between 2 and 16% of a population in clinical settings or between 0.5% and 1% of the general population. Narcissistic Personality Disorder is often diagnosed with other mental health disorders, and this is known as comorbidity.


Narcissist in Your Mind (with Dr Maryam Tanwir, University of Cambridge)

Professor Sam Vaknin, a diagnosed narcissist, explains that narcissism is a complex mental health disorder that affects every area of functioning. Narcissism is an organizing principle, a worldview, and a theory of mind. Narcissists lack empathy and see people as commodities or units of production. Narcissism is bad for the individual and everyone around them, and when assets such as sexuality, intelligence, and empathy are leveraged at the service of narcissism, it becomes a dangerous weapon.


Idealized, Devalued, Dumped

Narcissists have a cycle of overvaluation and devaluation, which is more prevalent in borderline personality disorder than in narcissistic personality disorder. The cycle reflects the need to be protected against the whims, needs, and choices of other people, shielded from the hurt that they can inflict on the narcissist. The overvaluation and devaluation mechanism is the most efficient one available to the narcissist, as the narcissist's personality is precariously balanced and requires inordinate amounts of energy to maintain. The narcissist's energies are all focused and dedicated to the task concentrated upon the source of supply he had identified.


Collapsed Narcissist, Collapsed Histrionic

Narcissists and histrionics rely on a constant supply of admiration and validation, akin to an addiction, and when this supply is insufficient, they can collapse into a state of dysfunction. This collapse can manifest in various forms, including self-destructive behaviors, aggression, or withdrawal, as they struggle to cope with their feelings of inadequacy and trauma. Both types may develop delusional narratives or engage in antisocial behaviors as a means of compensating for their low self-esteem and perceived rejection. Ultimately, when their psychological defenses fail, they may act out destructively, causing harm to themselves and those around them.


Depressive Narcissist

Pathological narcissism is often considered a form of depressive illness, with the life of a typical narcissist punctuated with recurrent bouts of dysphoria, sadness, hopelessness, anhedonia, loss of the ability to feel pleasure, and clinical forms of depression. Narcissists react with depression not only to life crises but to fluctuations in narcissistic supply and to the internal dynamics that these fluctuations generate. There are several types of dysphoria and depression in pathological narcissism, including loss-induced dysphoria, deficiency-induced dysphoria, self-worth dysregulation dysphoria, grandiosity gap dysphoria, and self-punishing dysphoria. Many narcissists end up delusional, schizoid, or paranoid to avoid agonizing and knowing depression.

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