Background

When Covert Narcissists Cross Paths, Swords

Uploaded 3/11/2024, approx. 9 minute read

A few days ago, in one of my more optimistic moments, I made a video about what happens when two narcissists meet each other.

And even worse, what happens when a narcissist comes across a psychopath.

Don't ask, just go there and watch the video.

But this brought on in Avalanche, a tsunami of comments, direct messages, emails and carrier pigeons asking me what happens when a covert narcissist comes across another covert narcissist.

What happens when they cross paths.

This is the topic of today's video.

My name is Sam Bakhnin, I'm the author of Malignant Self-Love, Narcissism Revisited, a former visiting professor of psychology and currently on the faculty of CEAPs.

What happens when two covert narcissists cross paths, if not swords?

Start with a problem.

While an overt narcissist can easily recognize another overt narcissist.

Both overt narcissists and covert narcissists are very bad at recognizing other covert narcissists.

Covert narcissists are, you guessed it, covert.

They're covert.

They're under the radar.

They're stealthy.

They're surreptitious.

They're hidden in a cult.

Covert narcissists rarely appear to be narcissists.

They pretend to be empathic, nice, kind and compassionate.

They often pose as victims, victims of other narcissists, for example.

So it's very difficult to identify, recognize and then act when you come across a covert narcissist.

And overt narcissists have no advantage when it comes to detecting covert narcissists.

This is the first problem.

Consequently, when an overt narcissist comes across a covert narcissist, the covert narcissist usually becomes the overt narcissist source of supply.

Covert narcissists are very Machiavellian.

They know which buttons to push.

They know to provide the narcissist with grade A narcissistic supply.

And the overt narcissist becomes addicted and dependent upon the covert narcissist.

The situation is very different when two covert narcissists team up.

As I said, the covert narcissist enhances, amplifies, magnifies, buttresses the grandiosity of the overt narcissist.

The covert narcissist encourages the cognitive distortions of the overt grandiose narcissist, the classic narcissist.

Covert narcissist provides the overt narcissist with narcissistic supply, which is essentially a drug.

The overt narcissist is a junkie.

The covert narcissist is the pusher.

But when the covert narcissist comes across another covert narcissist, what they trade between them, the coinage, the means of exchange is not grandiosity, it's victimhood.

Covert narcissists affirm each other's essential goodness and victimhood.

In other words, if when two covert narcissists meet each other, come across each other, cross paths, find themselves in the same environment, need to communicate somehow.

What they do is they affirm, they confirm each other's alleged or ostensible goodness.

You're a good person.

You're impeccable.

You're angelic.

You're perfect.

It's a form of affection.

And so the covert affirm each other's affection and they also sustain and support each other's self-perception as helpless, helpless, accidental victims of other malevolent people, especially overt narcissists and psychopaths. So the covert, the covert would signal to each other, virtual signal.

So covert engage in virtual signaling.

The covert would signal to each other.

We are good people.

We are victims of bad people.

We did nothing wrong.

We did not contribute to our predicament.

We are helpless.

We are childlike.

We are the collateral damage of the narcissist.

We are the byproducts of the narcissist's compulsive need to obtain supply or the psychopath's premeditated malice.

Victimhood is a key component in the disturbed identity of the covert narcissist.

It's perhaps the only feature that never wavers and never changes.

And so covert, whereas a covert would provide the overt narcissist, the grandiose narcissist with affirmations and confirmation and adulation and admiration and buttress the overt narcissist's self-image, self-perception, grandiose, inflated self-image and self-perception.

When two covert meet, they don't display grandiosity because covert are, you guessed it, covert.

When they display, it's victim.

But the victimhood of covert is grandiose.

So by enhancing each other's victimhood, by affirming each other's victimhood, by trading victimhood stories, by trauma dumping on each other and so on and so forth, what the covert do, they become more and more grandiose as victims.

Their victimhood becomes the locus of their grandiosity.

I am the number one victim, no one has ever been victimized like me and no one has ever come across an abuser worse than mine.

And of course, you can see this in forums of covert narcissists, also known as empaths.

So this is the first thing.

The second thing is that gradually one of the two covert assumes the roles of an overt narcissist who begins to dominate the interaction of the relationship.

I call it pseudo overt narcissist.

So when two covert meet, collaborate, interact, collude, conspire, cooperate, when two covert are in the same space, one of them gradually becomes grandiose overt, while the other one becomes submissive, obsequious, fawning.

And so the pseudo overt narcissist, the erstwhile covert, acts the role of the overt narcissist.

He becomes more and more grandiose, more and more ostentatious, more and more demanding, more and more addicted to narcissistic supply, which in this case is channeled via victimhood and virtue signaling or competitive victimhood is called.

Whereas the other covert interaction would assume the role of a supplier with obeisance, submissiveness, which is conspicuous, emphasized.

So they develop a kind of cult, kind of ritualized private religion of two, where one of them is the cult leader, the deity, the god figure, the godhead.

The other one is the worshipper and they engage in rituals which become more and more compulsive over time, more and more rigid.

Ultimately though, two covert can no more fit together, can no more coexist and co-survive than two overt.

In my previous video I made clear to you that when two overt grandiose narcissist meet or interact, it's going to lead to a god awful conflict, an eruption, a mess, one upmanship, an attempt to outdo the other, to be more, to be the best, to win and so on.

So competition.

Two overt, two grandiose narcissist engage almost exclusively in competition in order to establish supremacy, hierarchy, superiority so as to support the cognitive distortion of grandiose.

When two covert meet, it's a race to the bottom, not a race up but a race down.

Who is more victim, who has been more subjugated and subdued and tortured and molested and maltreated and abused and so on and so forth.

So it's a race to the bottom.

But at some stage this also leads to friction and conflict and hatred and arguments and externalised aggression.

And so they end up exploding exactly as a pair of overt or grandiose narcissist would, a pair of covert narcissist explode at each other.

They end up being at each other's throats.

There is no long term coexistence of same type narcissist.

Somatic and somatic, cerebral and cerebral, overt and overt, covert and covert cannot survive for long within a structured relationship, interpersonal relationship of any kind.

Only opposite types can and do survive.

A somatic with a cerebral, a covert with an overt.

But never the twin shall meet if they are of the same type.

Okay, I hope I clarified this one for you and I wish you an overt, pleasant day with covert undertones of pleasure. ###

If you enjoyed this article, you might like the following:

Collapsed Covert Narcissist: Dissonances, Indifference, No Boundaries

Professor Sam Vaknin discusses his upcoming controversial claim that all narcissists oscillate between being overt and covert in reaction to changing life circumstances and extreme narcissistic injury. He also delves into the behaviors of covert narcissists and the collapsed state of narcissism. Vaknin emphasizes the importance of recognizing the signs of a collapsed narcissist and the rationality of walking away from relationships with narcissists. He also discusses the concept of "no contact" as a strategy for dealing with narcissistic abuse.


Doormat Covert Narcissist Turns Primary Psychopath

In this video, Professor Sam Vaknin discusses the covert narcissist and their potential for change. He explains that the covert narcissist can transform into a primary psychopath under stress, and that they experience identity disturbance and difficulty in maintaining relationships. He also touches on the concepts of switching and modification in the context of covert narcissism.


YOU: Trapped in Fantasy Worlds of Narcissist, Borderline

Professor Sam Vaknin discusses the fantasy worlds of narcissists and borderlines, which are post-traumatic conditions resulting from childhood trauma and abuse. Both types of children develop a fantasy with an imaginary friend who soothes and comforts them. As they grow up and interact with real people, reality intrudes and challenges their fantasy. The child is faced with two choices: give up the fantasy or give up reality. Narcissists and borderlines value fantasy more than reality, and anyone who brings reality into their lives is seen as an enemy. Victims of narcissism are not chosen, they are commodified and interchangeable.


Narcissist's Revenge: Signs YOU are in DANGER

The text discusses the life of a narcissist, their response to frustration, and their transition to borderline and psychopathic states. It also delves into the narcissist's use of revenge and aggression, and the different types of revenge, including punitive, narcissistic, and pragmatic restorative. The text emphasizes the narcissist's perception of frustration as narcissistic injury and their use of aggression to eliminate the source of frustration. It also highlights the dangerous potential for violence in some narcissists.


Expose Narcissist’s Secret Speech

Professor Sam Vaknin discusses how narcissists use code and a cipher to manipulate others, including various techniques such as counterfactuality, victim language, projection, gaslighting, and passive aggression. He advises ignoring the hidden message and not responding to the occult message when communicating with a narcissist. He also discusses the evasiveness of narcissists and psychopaths, their competitive nature, and their use of alloplastic defenses to shift blame and deny responsibility for their actions. Finally, he explains that mentally ill people cannot be reasoned with, and their speech acts and decisions need to be deconstructed.


Codependency State Of Mind, Not State Of Affairs

Professor Sam Vaknin discusses the relationship between narcissists and their intimate partners, explaining that narcissists only need their partners to provide them with sex, supply, sadistic and narcissistic services. He also clarifies the terms codependent, counterdependent, and independent and discusses dependent personality disorder. The pathogenesis of co-dependency is brought about by parents who teach their children to expect only conditional transactional love, leading to the child feeling rage and anger at the unjust mistreatment. To overcome codependency, one should realize that the world never ends when relationships do, analyze their addiction, make a plan of action, and seek social support.


Borderline vs. Narcissist Idealization Fantasies

Professor Sam Vaknin discusses the differences between the borderline's shared fantasy and the narcissist's shared fantasy. He explains that both borderline and narcissist have similarities, but their internal psychodynamics are very different. The borderline has empathy and overwhelming emotions, while the narcissist lacks emotional empathy and experiences only negative emotions. The shared fantasies of the borderline and the narcissist are also different, with the borderline having a variety of shared fantasies and the narcissist having a simpler, maternal-based shared fantasy. Both types of individuals end up in a victim role, leading to a cycle of idealization and demonization in their relationships.


8 Ways to Survive the Narcissist (ENGLISH Excerpts)

The lecture is divided into two parts, with the first 15 minutes outlining the eight proven ways to manipulate a narcissist, with the most effective being no contact. The other seven techniques include gray rock, deflection, mirroring, shared psychosis, high-grade narcissistic supply, withholding, and intermittent reinforcement. However, the speaker warns that these techniques can lead to the development of narcissistic and psychopathic behaviors in the victim. The lecture concludes with an invitation to explore the narcissist's mind.


Victim or Narcissist? Tell Them Apart!

Professor Sam Vaknin discusses how narcissists often claim to be victims and use manipulative techniques to garner sympathy and attention. He provides four key indicators to distinguish between real victims and narcissists posing as victims: splitting, non-discrimination, alloplastic defenses, and automatism. Real victims exhibit nuance, dignity, and introspection, while narcissists engage in black-and-white thinking, blame others, lack self-reflection, and use self-pity for manipulative purposes. These indicators can help identify narcissistic behavior in individuals who claim victimhood.


Coping Styles: Narcissist Abuses "Loved" Ones Despite Abandonment Anxiety

Narcissists abuse their loved ones to decrease their abandonment anxiety, restore their sense of grandiosity, and test their partner's loyalty. Abuse also serves as a form of behavior modification, as it signals to the partner that they need to modify their behavior to avoid abuse. Coping styles for dealing with abuse include submissiveness, conflicting, mirroring, collusion, and displacement, but some of these styles can be harmful and should be avoided.

Transcripts Copyright © Sam Vaknin 2010-2024, under license to William DeGraaf
Website Copyright © William DeGraaf 2022-2024
Get it on Google Play
Privacy policy